Osun State Governor, Ogbeni Rauf Aregbesola, an exemplary gentleman, in this interview conducted by Huhuonline.com publisher, Emmanuel Emeke Asiwe and Managing Editor, Valerian Agbaw-Ebai bares his mind on mind-boggling issues bothering on his challenges in governance vis-a-viz his performance amid criticism, security in Northern Nigeria and many other national issues.
Huhuonline.com: For about a year, you ran Osun State without a cabinet. Is this an innovation in governance?
Rauf Aregbesola: No, it was not up to a year, I was sworn in November, 2010 and constituted my cabinet in August of 2011. It was about nine months. I ran the government without a cabinet because we had no money to pay wages. The state was bankrupt; I inherited an N18.3bn debt overhang. The debt overhang would not have been an issue if it were not a short-term debt with stringent terms. Every month for the state to meet its wage bill, the state had to take N1bn loan to augment whatever was left in terms of its revenue to settle salaries and wages. That was the state we met and; because of my commitment to the large pool of unemployed youth, I had to do something.
Rather than hold on to that critical need, I moved on the implementation of my youth empowerment programme and postponed the composition of the cabinet.
Please before you go further, ask yourself, is there any time line for cabinet composition in an executive government? For parliamentary system of government, of course there can`t be a government without a composition of cabinet. But in the executive government structures, it is usually unnecessary
Utilizing the same latitude the constitution provides, I was busy reorganizing my finances to meet pressing needs and critical programmes such as the youth empowerment scheme and again sufficiently building up reserve with which I will prosecute other important progammes as well as fund cabinet.
Cabinet is not just gathering of people, whether competent of incompetent. In my own case, I took time to select competent people. It is constituting a body; it is having the resources to make them do what they are supposed to do in government and provide them the wherewithal to serve in their respective positions. That, we struggled to do, which aided their performance when they were sworn in 12th August 2011.
Huhuonline.com: Your plan to introduce Ifa studies in secondary schools in your state has enraged parents, many of who now want to withdraw their wards from public schools. How do you plan to address this?
Rauf Aregbesola: First of all, I will not engage on religion, because when you reduce issues to emotions, not much is gained. You should therefore run away from sentiments and emotions. Religion is sensitive, emotive and could be sensational, to that extent I will not go into but I will answer your question. Before assuming office, I told the people that we would be fair to all manners of men. In my oath of office, it is so clear, it is constitutional that whoever occupies the position I occupy must shun discrimination of whatever nature, that is summarizing it. That particular line in the constitution says you should be fair to all manners of men regardless of any distinction be it gender distinction, shift distinction. You swear.
You must swear as part of oath of allegiance and duty to the people to be fair to all men. The question we must ask ourselves is, are there people in Osun State who are adherents of Ifa? We have to be careful when these issues come up. Don’t reduce it to religion. My religion does not accept Ifa, I don`t patronize Ifa. But the question we must ask ourselves are there people in Osun who are adherents of Ifa, if the answer is yes, then we ought to be careful. They are citizens; they are not sub citizens. They are full citizens deserving recognition, including government support just as you have Christians, Muslims, and atheists, who don’t believe in anything.
What do you call discrminatiom? Discrimination is conscious act against the interest of somebody who is equally recognized by constitution to have what you are denying them. I want to see the injury to anybody if as I have done, we recognize the rights of others.
Today in Osun, we recognise traditional religion in all official functions, so when a Muslim prays, a Christian prays also; traditional worshipers also pray. Initially it was offensive to the two dominant religions. But later they got to understand that it was indeed hypocritical for any government produced by plurality of votes to limit recognition of faith to just two. In the same manner, we are not forcing anybody in private institution to study anything.
What we are simply doing to the extent public school is for all those who believe in God and those who don`t believe in God- Those who worship God through Christian method and those who worship God through Muslim method and those who worship traditionally. It is our duty to allow them to worship the way they choose to worship and have knowledge of how they worship.
The question I expect from you and several other media practioners is, are we making Ifa studies compulsory? The answer is no. Just as we are not making the study of the Bible compulsory or study of the Quran compulsory. We can`t make study of Ifa compulsory. It is optional!
Can anybody legislate faith? When people talk I just laugh. If up till now in Nigeria. CRS( Christian Religious Studies) and IRK(Islamic Religious Knowledge) are not legislated in public schools, why would Ifa be legislated in schools.
We tend to glamorize rubbish- by seeing issues in their clear and reasonable perspective but attempt to confuse what has been done. CRS has been on for as long as we have had western education. Same with the IRK. But no government has ever given recognition to traditional religious studies. Thus we don’t even have teachers to teach Ifa religion.
All we have done is develop a system of electronic learning, in the system we have all examinable subjects that are taught in High School in Osun. This includes CRK, an examinable subject, and IRK, another examinable subject.
Besides those examinable subjects, the only other place you can have any semblance of Ifa knowledge is in Yoruba. There will be some mention, reference to Ifa but there is no exposure to Ifa. CRK as a subject is distinct from Bible. You may say Bible is the source. There is no doubt about that. IRK has its source from the Quran, but its distinct from the Quran.
For those who want to know about Ifa, we have provided a reference material in the “tablet of knowledge.” just like we did with Bible and Quran.
In the usual annual prayers, we have been having in Osun, one of the priests raised the issue of recognition of traditional religion and I informed him that it not just a question of recognizing traditional religion, we have in the “tablet of knowledge” that we shall be distributing Quran, Bible and Ifa.
That does not mean that Ifa is made compulsory; it is an elective, it’s uploaded in this electronic device for whoever cares to know read about it.
Ifa religion is morals- the course content are importance of patience, importance of money, sex education, roles of language in society, dangers in polygamy, awareness and appreciation of God.
Religion is a touchy subject. In our society are people who do nothing but worship Ifa, just as you feel about your own religion, they too feel bad that their children are taught CRK and IRK. If we want to strip it of any arrogance, what is it that gives one the right to think his religion is superior to others? It is bigamy, prejudice conditioned and forced by those who have been managing our affairs. We cannot be so enslaved for life.
I am Muslim, my religion tells me it is the only religion, only way of life. The question which we should ask ourselves is, is that permitted in modern civilized society? The answer is no. No matter how hard I feel about my religion, I can only have such say for myself. I can’t impose it on you. That is the ethos of modernity that is civilization; that is what we call socialization in modern time: accommodation and acceptance of differences between you and the other. If that becomes relevant, we must be able tolerate those with varying opinions on faith. You don’t have more rights than the man who does not believe anything. What must not be done to you is for your child to be compelled to study Ifa. At that time, you must say no, because it is against your belief. So also it is against the belief of Ifa adherents to have their children forced to learn Bible or the Quran.
Huhuonline.com: Can we say, the governor has taken in terms of public policy, take the least common denominator and say ok, this issue is controversial and heat up the polity, let us take way religion whether western or indigenous out public space.
Rauf Aregbesola: Listen, If we remove the study of IRK and CRK, there will be more hoopla. It may be difficult for you to accept, but your mind tells you this man is telling you the truth. What is called civilization? It is matured relationship. That is the capacity to absorb the nuances and excesses of the other man without taking offence because you know in the public space you have the right. Somebody can be Agnosium, It unethical, unhealthy, but the best you can is to move away from him. I had to make that point to know that what is called civility is the ability to accommodate others. The point I’m trying to make is, what is it is about Ifa that offends so badly?
Ifa teaches about the importance of patience. Let’s read what it says: “In Yoruba traditional religion, patience and perseverance in every human endeavor is held in high esteem. They believe that for one to excel in life one needs to endure a more challenging encounter to one’s journey to success.”
If indeed governance is about creation of awareness, popularization of culture, promote accommodation of differences, I think it perfectly in order to allow students know their culture very well and not screened of an aspect of their lives, that is as relevant to them regardless of their faith.
Huhuonline.com: Your Excellency, you seem to court controversy. Recall that you were in court for three years, trying to reclaim your mandate; you were accused of masterminding a bombing; and more recently, you were alleged to have ties with a radical Moslem group linked with the Boko Haram Islamist sect. Do you actually have ties with Boko Haram?
Rauf Aregbesola :You claimed that I have been linked with radical Islam, How? I won a popular mandate. Even going by your own admission, which I say is false. How can somebody win a popular mandate if he is identified with a radical sect, which is in the minority? When was the phenomenon of Boko Haram? When was my mandate? Boko Haram became a phenomenon in 2009, I ran for office in 2007. So where is the link?
You went further to say I was linked with a bombing incident, honorably speaking, nothing can be more fallacious; there was no such thing anywhere; they’re just your own fabrication. And I want to appeal to people in the media that it is in our collective interest to take pain to crosscheck our facts before putting them in public domain, because once they are in the public domain they are permanent; because we do not want misinform the public. This is high responsibility, which we must all seek to be conscious of before we launch out, otherwise we will be injuring people unnecessarily while propagating rubbish and falsehood. But I will put the issues in context. Rauf Aregbesola is confidently and unpretentious a Muslim. And that is a right I have, just as very one the right to bear the faith they profess.
Rauf Aregbesola, however, from school, had always proclaimed the amiable right of everybody to freely profess their religion and on that ground I can lay down my life to ensure that nobody is disallowed from professing his religion. I don’t understand anything that we mean by radical Islam; criminals are criminals, whether they are Christians or they are Muslims. A criminal is a criminal. Whoever takes life for any reason either in the course of posolisation or robbery for material gain is a criminal and must be seen as such. That you must understand and that you must see from the fact that I will defend the right of anybody to profess their faith
Thirdly, it is unfortunate that we are very quick to hold on to allegations even when several statements have been issued to debunk those allegations. You read the allegation that I was sponsoring radical Islam, One will like to you to equally make reference to our rebuttal to the allegations.
Huhonline.com: That is why we are giving you this opportunity.
Rauf Aregbesola: If you have read it, you will not even bother asking such questions, because SSS denied issuing that statement. I went to the DG of SSS and said to him, I read this about my person, please for goodness sake, let me have your proof. And he asked me, did I ever contact you that any such statement was made? So why are you accusing us.
I was interviewed in the premises of SSS, and I told the world that the SSS Czar denied issuing such statement.
Huhuonline.com: Excellency, The SSS lie a lot !!!
Rauf Aregbesola: Why was that statement issued? We told the world! Our opponents, believing that if were so stigmatized, it would help them, went about the campaign of calumny, submitting falsehood. We did not stop there; we told the whole world that a man that will accused of Islamisation must be seen in its total form. I have cabinet of 36 members. Cabinents are not formed by elections, cabinets are formed by choice. So a man interested in Islamazation will surround himself with muslims. I have six Muslims among 36 cabinet members. I had a choice when I was running to pick a Muslim as my running mate; I picked a fire brand Christian as running mate, a member of Mountain of Fire and Miracles. That is not all, we have 26 members in the state house of assembly, 10 or less are Muslims.
Huhuonline.com: Your Excellency, Assembly members came in by elections, anyway.
Rauf Aregbesola : Listen, now, you will say that the man wanted to run a faith-based government. You know I am the governor, don’t miss it. Don`t forget I was already a governor before they were elected, before they even ran for the election. Don`t try to reduce the impact of my influence if I wanted to do otherwise. I became a governor in 2010, Assembly election was 2011. I had enough time. Don’t ever gloss over it, please, it is important, because when you want to tell people that I am simply mischievous, you can`t just close it down. If you do, you are mischievous, too.
We have 31 executives at the local government level, sworn in by me, as caretaker committee members, only 10 are Muslims. When you now sum this up, where then is the meat of this allegation? Probably what they are telling you.
Huhuonline.com: It is what we read.
Rauf Aregbesola: What they are telling you, you now take hook line and sinker, in a clime where it is almost a crime to appear as Muslim, I do with relish. In a clime where public office is already seen as a caucus for conformity, a non-conformist is there, who does not give any nonsense about his own faith. I therefore appear in the public sometimes as traditional Yoruba person, sometimes as a Muslim. I concede to others the right to be who they are within the law. I think I have a right to be who I am within the law. That is all.
Huhuonline.com: Do you wear your religion on your sleeve?
Rauf Aregbesola: What makes you think you don’t wear yours on your sleeve?
Huhuonline.com: I don’t hold public office, you are the governor.
Rauf Aregbesola: (Laughter) everything about me is liberal, unless when you want to be openly mischievous.
You met me yesterday; did anything suggest to you that I am a fundamentalist? Nothing, it is a question of perception and the impression you want to have. I said there can’t be a more determined advocate of accommodation than me. In all public statements and outings, I tell people that what you call life has no other definition than service, and service has no colour of religion or colour of nationalism, either ethnic or general nationalism. Service is service, so if that is my ethos, which I preach, which I live by, which I demonstrate, where is this absolute falsehood of somebody being what he is not.
This is not my first time in public office. I was in public office for eight years; I have not changed a bit, in either my public appearance or attitude. I have been like this. I appear in the way that I believe is best suited, for as long as it does not offend the laws of the land. I want to believe just I expect of others; I want to believe everybody has the right to live by his own code, which does not offend the general code of society. I don`t know how well I have responded to you.
Huhuonline.com: In the last presidential election, your state voted against President Jonathan, despite your party`s stance, which made it possible for the presidential candidate of the ruling party to win the presidential election in all ACN-controlled states. What informed this decision, and if the same scenario reoccurs in 2015, will you tow the same line?
Rauf Aregbesola: I don’t know where got you this information from, Can you let me have the categorical endorsement of Jonathan by the ACN. There was no open or secret endorsement of President Ebele Jonathan by my party. My party fielded a candidate, and what we did in Osun was to tow the party line. People must not forget that National Chairman of my party, Chief Bisi Akande is from Osun and sensitive and all important election like that it will have been difficult for the party not to give total support to the most senior person, to the highest leadership of the party as exemplified by Chief Bisi Akande. So without any doubt or cause to want to reduce the decision of the party in Osun as well as the overwhelming support that the party enjoys, I want to tell you that we simply voted for our party to justify the level of popularity that we enjoy in the state.
Huhuonline.com: What is your take on the present security challenge in Nigeria? what does Nigeria needs to overcome the security problems, particularly in the North?
Rauf Aregbesola: In all my public statements on the instability in Northern Nigeria, I have all ways been very didactic. When you are didactic about a thing, you are not just superficial. I have spoken at two public events, specifically on the challenges of security in Northern Nigeria. I said that in any environment where disparity exists in the economic status of the people there to the extent that some have more than what they need and a large majority wallow in poverty, unless you bridge the gap, tension, social tension crisis and all sorts of criminality cannot be avoided.
Today, the insurgency in the North is such that we must embark on an immediate youth empowerment programme that will remove the social base for the recruitment of disempowered, disaffected, angered youths that readily gravitate to the misdirected sponsors of the violence. That was why rather than go about forming cabinet even in my own state, in spite of my challenges in funding I pursued aggressively Youth empowerment and I am the first government in the history of Nigeria to develop mass youth empowerment programme that engages 20,000 able-bodied, educated unemployed youths. The programme has been adjudged as the best social safety net by the World Bank. When I began that, am still talking about that, I expect social commentators to readily link my position on the economy and the consequences of solving the economic ethos in the Nigerian polity as the antidote to removing the tension, instability and insecurity.
